"Asymptomatic" Period

By James Whitehead

Posted on http://forums.about.com/innocuous/messages Nov 14th 2002 Deetee4 states:

"I am willing to accept that there are more drug-linked toxicites now than in the past because more drugs are used. You also forget that 10, 15 years ago, coinfection with Hep and the resultant liver problems were not thought to be a major concern, because the HIV would get you (death within 5-10 years) before the Hep B/C would (death in 20 years plus). Well thanks to HIV drugs, patients are outliving their original prognosis and living long enough for Hep to become a problem"

Respect11:

Sorry, because of research into what used to be called "Incubation /Latency/Asymptomatic" [hypothesized/believed/accepted/well known then because "HIV" was thought to be inactive,dormant due to the fact that using the old "VIRAL detection tests" virtualy no "HIV" could be detected and in many cases none at all] period it is now known and accepted (well established by the establishment themselves) that on average in a 10 year period 25% would die from "AIDS", 25% would be alive with "symptoms"/"aids" and 50% would be alive and well with no "symptoms"/"Aids" or whats called asymptomatic.These figures are before treatment came out.

Deetee4 states:

"You also forget that 10, 15 years ago, coinfection with Hep and the resultant liver problems were not thought to be a major concern, because the HIV would get you (death within 5-10 years) before the Hep B/C would (death in 20 years plus). Well thanks to HIV drugs, patients are outliving their original prognosis and living long enough for Hep to become a problem."

Respect11:

As I have pointed out above, you stating "because the HIV would get you "(death within 5-10 years) " is wrong and has always been wrong. The prognosis "(death within 5-10 years)" is and was always wrong, furthermore it was unproven ,unethical, immoral and a violation of human rights for such an unproven and discredited prognosis to be handed out to God knows how many people.

"Well thanks to HIV drugs, patients are outliving their original prognosis and living long enough for Hep to become a problem."

As I have pointed out above, the original prognosis "(death within 5-10 years)" is and was always wrong so of course they they outlived their original false discredited prognoses.

At long last the now discredited and deserted "Hit Hard Hit Early" strategy lays abandoned and has now had to be evolved into the more realistic "Wait Until You Need It Or have "Aids" strategy.

The logical conclusion is that neither AZT monotherapy nor Combination therapy have any advantages or benefits whatsoever for "asymptomatic" people.

Hep abc and toxicities of recreational drugs/alcohol have been common in IV drug users, people with hemophilia, and gay men for years, its not new. Read the Oxford hemophilia study, look how many died of liver complications. All ARV's (anti-retrovirals) are HEPATOTOXIC, the longer you take them the greater the chance of damage, so giving these drugs is of no benefit to healthy asymptomatics. It was a big mistake and hepatotoxicity is just one of the major reasons it was a big mistake. These patients have been harmed by ARV therapies.

The "Hit Hard Hit Early" strategy" should have been confined to a long term, properly controlled clinical trial not rammed down everyones throats as fact, it should not have been used willy nilly in an ad hoc, haphazard fashion. It should not have become standard treatment guidlines. It was a repeat of the mistake they made with AZT but what profitable mistakes to make!

The clinical trial should have a proper control group of healthy asymptomatics not recieving any ARV therapy at all. Without this group any and all trials are flawed , biased, and unscientific.

Trials should be long term because the "asymptomatic" period on average lasts a decade or more. Trials like UK MRC Delta (Dual combo before PI's) that lasted an average of 2 years 2 months are invalid, because the long term toxicities and side effects are not known. Also Delta's control group was on AZT.